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Last Post:
Jun 18, 2009 7:25 PM
by: sn4tch
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Posts:
28
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1/29/09
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The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 11, 2009 3:47 PM
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I just wanted to bring your attention to these two files. They are an INCREDIBLE list of Batman comics in order of continuity. Not just trades or storylines. Single issues and everything, the whole thing.
html:
http://www.box.net/shared/5vpamhkg6s
pdf:
http://www.box.net/shared/vlkck5hp3q
The list was created by a user by the name of Batmite76 or deaconblackfire76. Back in June of 2007, he left saying he would soon update the list with thumbnail pictures for each issue, but instead has basically disappeared forever.
I've been looking at this list for awhile, and I believe we fans should
continue
this list on! The last issues on the list are from August 2007, that means we have 18 months worth of continuity to deal with! Looking at what Batmite76 was able to pull off involving DECADES of comics, how sad would we look being unable to round up a simple 18+ months.
With the events of Final Crisis, and the cancellation of most of the Bat titles till post Battle For The Cowl, I see no better time than the present to start work on this. And I Say We Start
RIGHT NOW!
Starting with Issues that Batmite76 had not been able to read yet.
__________________________________________________________
WHAT'S NOT IN THERE (YET OR WON'T BE):
STUFF I'LL INSERT NEXT (AS SOON AS I GET AROUND TO IT:
JOSIE MAC - LOST VOICES (TEC BACKUP STORY)
THE HUNTRESS 7-12 & 14-16
STUFF I'LL EVENTUALLY INSERT (TOUCHIER / NOT AS OBVIOUS TO INSERT, MIGHT REQUIRE MORE RE-READING TIME):
JLA: JUSTICE FOR ALL
JLA: DIVIDED WE FALL
WORLD'S FINEST MAXISERIES
STUFF I'M NOT SURE I'LL INSERT (HAVE TO CHECK AND SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE TO INSERT IT, AND WHERE):
BATMAN / DEADMAN: DEATH AND GLORY
THE DOGCATCHER TEC BACKUP STORY
TEC 518, 520
LODK ARCS: SNITCH, STEPS, STORIES, CONSPIRACY, DIRTY TRICKS, MASKS, TURF, CRIMINALS, THE DARKNESS, BLINK, DON'T BLINK, THE SLEEPING
STUFF I HAVEN'T PICKED-UP / READ YET (SO WHO KNOWS...):
BATGIRL: GIRLFRENZY
JOURNEY INTO KNIGHT
BATMAN / DANGER GIRL
ROOMFUL OF STRANGERS
B.O.P. 7, 9-14 & 44-55
__________________________________________________________
Personally, I just read Journey Into Knight and am having a hard time having it fit into the continuity established by Batmite76.
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Posts:
28
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1/29/09
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 13, 2009 10:18 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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Nobody wants to help? Even a discussion on Journey Into Knight and its place in continuity?
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Posts:
861
Registered:
6/24/05
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 14, 2009 8:14 AM
in response to: sn4tch
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There are a lot of mistakes on the list. Batman Year Two is in there (which Morrison wrote out). Trinity, which is just incompatibible with so many things. He excludes The Wrath's first appearance, which is very clearly in continuity now thanks to Batman Confid.
Would take a lot to fix ths list. And I don't have the time, right now at least.
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 14, 2009 1:05 PM
in response to: jgiannantoni05
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I'm more worried about the last 18 months and storyline he either was going to add or never read. Fixing the list in its current form can be done at a later time (Though I didn't realize he left out the Wrath issue).
For example, he has the Worlds Finest Maxiseries listed as something he was thinking about putting in. I don't think he should, as most of those stories are pre-Crisis.
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Posts:
3
Registered:
3/10/09
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 15, 2009 6:02 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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I'd like to help.
As others have pointed out, it has errors in it. Batman: Year Two is now officially non-canonical. Joe Chill no longer existed as of the Zero Hour storyline and then was reintroduced as of Infinite Crisis #6 as being arrested the night of the murder. This is further laid out in Batman 673, "Joe Chill In Hell".
Really, fixing the errors would be the way to go. The current list would need to be gone over from the beginning to the end and storylines that are now out of continuity would need to be removed. Further stories that were under consideration would need to be re-examined to see if entry is possible.
I'll make a deal with you - I'll go over the existing list if you begin constructing continuity where it left off. Since it seems as if it would be left to us alone, I think that's a pretty fair division of labor.
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 15, 2009 6:48 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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61 pages of Batman comics or Batman RIP & Final Crisis and all of its Tie-ins. Mine just might be harder!
Now I just need to find a pretty good list of comics with Batman in them from the last 18 months.
I've been re-reading Batman Confidential from issues #1, so that's a good start
Also, personally I don't think publisher cross overs should be knocked off. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Batman vs. Predator on the list.
Message was edited by: sn4tch
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 15, 2009 10:22 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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Sorry to double post.
Anyway, Looking at the list, I realize I didn't really keep up with Batman in the whole Countdown and all the tie ins. If anyone can tell us what issues we might need from Countdown and Final Crisis or any tie-ins, please post. Thank you!
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 16, 2009 9:01 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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Yours might be harder, but it will be easier for you than for me.
I haven't kept up with Batman since before Infinite Crisis. I'm probably setting myself up for a whole lotta hurt.
Anyhow, I'm proposing some base rules for the chronology:
- That which contradicts established continuity must be removed.
- There are three massive nexus points of continuity change in Post-COIE Batman. This means the "established continuity" changes at 3 points:
1) Zero Hour
2) Infinite Crisis
3) Final Crisis
These should be kept in mind when reviewing material.
- Crossovers can remain so long as they do not contradict established continuity and do not involve Marvel.
- Pre-Crisis stories are ok to include so long as they do not contradict established continuity.
Anything else, you think?
Message was edited by: exiledv20
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 16, 2009 10:35 PM
in response to: exiledv20
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> Anyhow, I'm proposing some base rules for the
> chronology:
>
> - That which contradicts established continuity must
> be removed.
Obviously. There's a lot of problems though that I think are easily ignored in early Year One era Batman. Like Gordons rank, technology, etc. These can be discussed when we run across them.
> - There are three massive nexus points of continuity
> change in Post-COIE Batman. This means the
> "established continuity" changes at 3 points:
> 1) Zero Hour
> 2) Infinite Crisis
> 3) Final Crisis
> These should be kept in mind when reviewing material.
Sounds good to me.
> - Crossovers can remain so long as they do not
> contradict established continuity and do not involve
> Marvel.
I would say Image and other publishers too. I'm not really into Batman vs. Predator, Spawn or Grendel. Batman/Green Arrow is going to be fine.
> - Pre-Crisis stories are ok to include so long as
> they do not contradict established continuity.
I guess I'm kind of iffy on this one. A lot of the stuff from Batman in the 70's is fine especially a lot of Ra's Al Ghul stuff, and stories by O'Neil. Are you thinking anything before that? Because I'm thinking like Joker's Five Way Revenge and onward.
For example he had the Worlds Finest Maxiseries listed as something he wanted to inject into the list. That series ended in '86, and I can't imagine there will be a whole lot we can use in there. (Plus he wasn't even willing to put Superman/Batman anywhere on this list).
> Anything else, you think?
Not really, I'm interested to see what your draft of the list looks like.
I've been able to find most of my back issues for the Bat Family stuff. The way that I am working is I'm working with all the comics from the end of Batmite76's list through right before Battle For The Cowl. I've grabbed the following issues so far and am going to be reading through them soon:
Batman: 666 - 686
Detective: 833 - 852 (and 853 when it comes out)
Catwoman: 69 - 82
Nightwing: 133 - 153
Robin: 164 - 183
Birds Of Prey: 108 - 127
Teen Titans: 48 - 66 (When Robin Leaves)
Titans: 1 - 10 (When Nightwing Leaves)
Outsiders: 47 - 50
Batman & The Outsiders: 1 - 14 & Special #1
Batman Confidential: 1 - Ongoing
And some other random ones:
Gotham Underground
Huntress Year One
Two-Face Year One
Jokers Asylum
Plus all stuff I have listed in the first post. And I still have to find out all the stuff Batman & Family was in outiside of the Bat books, like Final Crisis, JLA, Trinity, and other special things that happened.
I also wanted to get your take on how we should handle Countdown? For example on Batmite76's list he only listed Issues of 52 that directly involve Batman characters, and I was thinking the same might be possible for Countdown.
Message was edited by: sn4tch
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 23, 2009 11:00 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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I would say Image and other publishers too. I'm not really into Batman vs. Predator, Spawn or Grendel. Batman/Green Arrow is going to be fine.
Indeed. Any crossovers with other DCU characters are perfectly valid, so long as they're not contradictory. Of the non-DCU crossovers, only Grendel really stands up as a true Batman addition and I'm still iffy on it. We'll cross that road when we get there.
A lot of the stuff from Batman in the 70's is fine especially a lot of Ra's Al Ghul stuff, and stories by O'Neil. Are you thinking anything before that? Because I'm thinking like Joker's Five Way Revenge and onward. For example he had the Worlds Finest Maxiseries listed as something he wanted to inject into the list. That series ended in '86, and I can't imagine there will be a whole lot we can use in there. (Plus he wasn't even willing to put Superman/Batman anywhere on this list).
The Demon stories and the O'Neil stories would be my primary focus for inclusion. The majority of the Pre-Crisis stuff screams Silver Age or a specific time period and so would not be included. Massive amounts of hippies and a "socially relevant" storyline? Probably not applicable. That will make it a slow case-by-case examination.
Not really, I'm interested to see what your draft of the list looks like.
From Year One all the way up to Long Halloween I've currently identified 39 "books" or storylines that are probable and will be undergoing examination....starting Thursday, it appears. I'll be giving a blow by blow for each comic starting then.
I also wanted to get your take on how we should handle Countdown? For example on Batmite76's list he only listed Issues of 52 that directly involve Batman characters, and I was thinking the same might be possible for Countdown.
I agree that this would be the best way to deal with Countdown.
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 24, 2009 9:46 PM
in response to: exiledv20
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Here's some info for some Year One material I'm reading.
Journey Into Knight 1-6
- Bruce looks REALLY young.
- Gordon and Bruce are shown making Bat Signals.
- Bruce takes over Wayne Industries.
Batman Confidential 22-25
-Takes place RIGHT after the Man Who Laughs.
-The story of the first time Batman brings Joker to jail.
Jouney Into Knight 7-12
- Takes place 4 months after part 6
- At the very least, The Man Who Laughs had to have happened.
- Joker takes over Arkham.
- It's basically the story of why Bruce is so paranoid about people.
Batman Confidential 1-6
- Someone mentions Bruce has been Batman for "over a year"
- It's the first time Batman and Lex Luthor meet.
- I think it probably takes place right before Long Halloween
Two-Face Year One 1 & 2
- Issue #1 takes place mostly during Long Halloween and fills some gaps.
- I'm still not sure if Issue #2 happens before or after Dark Victory.
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Posts:
6
Registered:
3/25/09
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 25, 2009 10:16 AM
in response to: sn4tch
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I would agree that the work deacon/mite did on this compilation was just astounding, and I would love to see it continually updated.
I'd offer what help I can, but I don't know how much use I'd be since I'm essentially using the list as a catch-up point, having only recently returned to the Batman mythos after an extended hiatus.
Re: World's Finest Maxiseries, I believe the ten-issue series by Kessel and Taylor from 1999 was going to be the tentative insert and not the ongoing publication that ended in 1986.
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 25, 2009 1:55 PM
in response to: cocktailxyz
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> Oh, and for RIP & Its Tie-Ins, here is a good
> reference:
>
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=
> 255512
I've read that thread, and I'll probably reference it when I come to that. RIP, Countdown, FC and all that's in between sure are fun. At least being focused on the Batman material makes it easier.
And I totally forget about the ten issue Worlds Finest series.
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Re: The Ultimate Batman Continuity!
Posted:
Mar 27, 2009 10:31 PM
in response to: sn4tch
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So, I've been reading this ten part Worlds Finest series, and it's not bad. The big problem is, it takes place over ten years. Some things I noticed:
Issue One - Probably takes place during year one.
Issue Two - During Year two
Issue Three - Year Three, Batman's alone, with yellow Bat symbol on chest
Issue Four - Dick is mentioned, but I'm pretty sure it's alluding that Dick doesn't know about Batman yet?
Issue Five - Batgirl is in it, still no Robin?
Issue Six - Dick Grayson is in, and so is Bat-mite?
Issue Seven - Just afrer Jason Todds death.
Issue Eight - Catwoman... that's it
Issue Nine - Half of it has Batman dealing with the fake Supermen, the second half deals with Superman dealing with Azbats.
Issue Ten - Tim Drake and Supergirl.
As you can see, lots of strange happenings in the ten years these take place it. I figured I would bring it up to discuss. Also, I'm reading the Worlds Finest mini. It's basically the old Joker and Luthor team up story.
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